005: You’re Richer Than You Think (But Not in Money)

Charles (: 00:22

Welcome to the Unsexy Entrepreneurship Podcast. If you're a millennial who is done with corporate America and obsessed with starting, acquiring or growing your business to be financially free, independent, you're in the right place. I am your host, Charles Harris. I'm a CPA and I'm joined with my cohost Dr. Seth Jensen. And this is the Unsexy Entrepreneurship Podcast.

Seth Jenson (: 00:30

⁓

Charles (: 00:40

So today we're gonna talk about networking, social capital, really getting yourself out there. I think this is one of the most important things for entrepreneurs to learn. And again, I work more on Main Street side of the business, but I think a lot of these same principles can be used at any size of company. Because I can guarantee you that.

Amazon works with other Fortune 500 companies to provide them with supplies, right? Like all of this can be taken and transitioned throughout all of business. So Seth, why don't you give us a bit of a definition of what social capital is.

Seth Jenson (: 01:11

Yeah, so my fun definition of social capital, because I agree with you, I think it is everything in entrepreneurship. I cannot overstate the importance of social capital in entrepreneurship. So I think of it as the magic pixie dust of entrepreneurship, like the thing that just makes miracles and magic happen. Exactly, yeah. A more technical definition of social capital is

Charles (: 01:29

We're gonna fly to Neverland. I love flying to Neverland.

Seth Jenson (: 01:39

We think of financial capital, for example, or human capital. There's a bunch of different types of capital. Financial capital, obviously you can spend money to get stuff done for you. Human capital is kind of the like, your knowledge, your skill set, things that people pay you to bring to bear in businesses. Social capital, it's a relationship-based capital. So it's the mutual understandings we have with the people that we can activate.

to get stuff done. So example I always use, if you're moving on a Saturday, if people show up to help you move for free, it's because you have social capital with those people, right? Your mom typically is the person you have the most social capital with in the world, right? She's willing to wake up and make you pancakes in the morning. That takes a lot of social capital to get that done. You and I have a lot of social capital, right? Like you called me up at the beginning of your business, you're like, hey, can I talk through my business?

Charles (: 02:11

You

Seth Jenson (: 02:27

Normally I would charge a lot of financial capital to consult someone with their business, but for you it was just a no-brainer. Of course I'm going to do it for free. And since then you've helped me with my business for free, right? So that's all transactions happening based on social capital and it's what makes networking work, right? And it's funny too, because social capital, it can open up doors, obviously it can decrease the amount of financial capital you have to spend.

So someone might say like, know, previously we would charge this much to help you with this, but you know, we're buddies and so we'll give you a good deal or a discount or something like that. And it can also be a way for, again, all the examples I just gave were free, right? To get things that would normally cost a lot of money, but totally free.

Charles (: 03:10

Yeah. And I think this is really true. So I do a lot of networking. that's the majority of how I get my clients in my business. It has been really interesting. People I'm friends with now will introduce me as the accounting expert or they'll if they hear someone needs accounting help.

They immediately call me over and they say, well, you should talk to this guy. He's awesome. I might not even help them in their business, right? But it's, it's that social capital. We're friends. We've been friends for a while now. and it really helps speed up the acquisition process. Cause I come in and they've already introduced me. They already trust my credentials, even though I haven't explained what my background is. They already trust me as a person too.

So it can be really beneficial, I think, in growing and speed of growth too.

Seth Jenson (: 03:56

Absolutely. That magic pixie dust you just described was like having a sales team for free, having like, you know, that aren't just connecting you, but doing so warmly, doing so with like, they're actually really excited to connect you with and help you, right? So it's magical. And I think what's important to realize is we are social creatures fundamentally. So when people are making choices in business or outside of business, there's a...

Charles (: 04:02

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 04:21

social context to that and they're working based on social proofs. So that's why those warm connections that are happening from your network are so much more powerful than a cold call, right? Because people are looking for, if this person I like trusts this person, then I too like that person and trust that person, right? That's how we operate. It's how we choose what TV shows we watch, what foods we like. We are really a product of our network in a way that is honestly mind-blowing, almost to the level of creepy like we're all in the machine.

just a product of our environment type stuff. This is some research just like to give you a smattering on this. There's been research that shows you are likely the same weight as the people you are closest to. Like if you are surrounded by a bunch of obese people, the odds of you being obese are incredibly high, right? Or smoking, the same thing. If you're surrounded by a bunch of people that smoke, the odds of you smoking are much higher. Happiness is determined in so many ways by the people around. If we're surrounded by happy people,

we also are much more likely to be happy, right? We are a product of the people we know, right? Like our mom was totally right when she was like, get good friends because, you know, bad ones will lead you down the path. Like the science like supports that, right? Moms of the world, like thank you. So it's super important to activate social capital in ways that ⁓ really affect your business positively because it's determinative of so many things.

Charles (: 05:23

Ha ha.

that's really cool. what do you teach in school and how to do the network? Cause I think that's where people get scared and they don't know what to do. they know it's important to talk to people, but how many local businesses there are versus how many that I have seen on a regular basis and know from all my networking is very different.

So if you go around my town, right, you can find hundreds of different businesses that are solo operated or franchises that are pretty small. I am pretty involved in the community now and have been for a good year at this point. And I think I see a very, very, very tiny percentage of those business owners at those networking events. And some of them like,

A McDonald's franchise, I'm not sure how much it really helps. but in, in business. Yeah. But the majority of businesses I think could be really benefited from being present locally.

Seth Jenson (: 06:24

your business.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. So let's talk a little bit about network structure and why networking is so powerful because you kind of actually broke this down really well. Like you know there's this community of businesses and business owners around you, right? And we can think of that as a network map. So each person or business owner being a node on that map.

and they've got their inner circle, the people that they're really close with, and that's called their inner network. Those are the people that you spend a lot of time with, you see regularly, and those people know other people. So you're connected kind of indirectly through the people you know. So ⁓ for example, I know you, we're tight, we have tons of social capital between, we have what we call a strong tie, lots of trust, lots of bandwidth in our communication, but you know a bunch of accountants.

that I don't. So if I needed a specialty accountant service that you don't offer, I know for a fact I can talk to you and you can connect me with that person, right? So you're part of my inner network and that's actually called bridging capital where you're a bridge between me and something else I need. There's also people in my network that I don't know as well as you, right? Maybe they're a colleague I used to work with or someone I see occasionally at church but don't.

talk to you all that much, that's kind of my outer network. And similarly, they have a bunch of people they know, and I can reach out to them as well, but maybe it's a little less warm a connection as it would be with you. ⁓ Yeah, so what's important is both your inner network and your outer network can do magic for your business, and they typically do different things. So your inner network, you're more likely to have redundancy. Like you and I know more of the same people.

Charles (: 07:57

Yeah, it's not guaranteed that they'll help. Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 08:13

We both up nerds and read nerd books and we're very similar, right? It's called homophily, but like.

Charles (: 08:18

Yeah, I mean we

were even roommates in college, right? So that by itself will give us a ton of connections.

Seth Jenson (: 08:21

Right.

Exactly. So me reaching out to you is a little, there's less variety in what you could provide me as someone that's in a totally different space. They're just going to know a different set of people. Right? So if I need to, so there's just kind of pros and cons there. Pro of reaching out to you, really lots of trust. You can have a really warm introduction. Con is we probably know a lot of the same people. When I reach out to that associate that I worked with,

Charles (: 08:31

Mmm.

Seth Jenson (: 08:45

five years ago and we left on good terms but we haven't really followed up. They're a little less excited to help me but they're gonna know a lot of people that I have never met before. So the takeaway here is don't just stick in your inner network because it's easy or because they really know you and don't just stick in your outer network if you're afraid to, there's sometimes discomfort in talking to your close friends and family, right? Like sometimes we don't wanna tell people that we started a business cause we're ashamed. Don't limit yourself.

Charles (: 09:08

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 09:12

Use your inner network. Be really open with what you're doing in your business and use your outer network. Don't be afraid to do slightly colder calls and reach out to people you haven't talked to in a while. There's power in both of these parts of your network and the more you get the message out, the more you let the world know about what you're doing, the more magic and luck can happen in your business in so many different ways.

Charles (: 09:33

Yeah, I love you. call it luck because it's, it's so funny trying to explain where my clients come from and it all kind of appears as luck. and that's, that's not really what it is, right? I've put myself out there. I've done a ton of things. but I think if you were to explain to someone randomly on the street, like, I found this person because so-and-so knew so-and-so who then, like, I think probably want to

The weirdest connections is I know a payroll specialist whose daughter goes to the same church as someone else's daughter, who then recommended their father to me as a client. Right. That was a really weird con. No. And still to this day, I'm still confused at why they trusted me and how they even found me. but I think that's, that's, I think what's kind of interesting about this whole thing. Cause I think that you could say that that was luck.

Seth Jenson (: 10:06

Yep. There's no way you could have planned for that, right?

Charles (: 10:20

but I had a one-on-one with that payroll specialist. We've chatted several times, we've worked together. So in that weird situation, however, the name got passed. It worked because of that social capital I had built and gained during other periods of time.

Seth Jenson (: 10:33

Yeah, absolutely. So, and I just want to emphasize like social capital, these networks that we're a part of can do so many things for your business. What I always talk about for the really early startup situation, you tend to be financial capital poor. You tend to not have very much money. If you do, congratulations. But most people don't have tons of money when they're starting their business, right? They don't have

an organization, don't have revenue, but they tend to be more social capital rich than they realize. And that social capital can do a lot of the things that financial capital would have done. So for example, maybe you don't know how to register your business or run your books or set up a e-commerce site or whatever, you know, there's all of these things you don't know. You could technically pay a consultant to do that for you, or you could use your network to get those answers and

Maybe be connected to people that would make great partners in the future to actually do them when you do have money to pay people. So getting answers, social capital is great for that. Finding the right person that has that expertise you need, taking them to lunch is a powerful way to do it. People love talking about what they're good at. so getting free lunch and talking about what they're really good at is, everybody wants to do that. And it's very little cost to you. So get the answers with your social capital. Again,

You can often get a little bit of free labor to help you get started with your social capital. You can make connections for your first clients through social capital. They can be that sales and marketing team you need at the beginning. So many different opportunities. So remember, you are social capital rich. If you've got a problem, apply your social capital before you fork over a bunch of money to solve it.

Charles (: 12:08

Yeah. And I think people don't realize how rich they are in social capital until they start a business sometimes. ⁓ or even just ask, right? think we've talked about this several times, but just saying what you're doing and then asking people if they know anyone is one of the best things you can possibly do. and I think in the majority of situations, unless it's a really niche or odd service, I think you could probably get a client right then and there.

Seth Jenson (: 12:14

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite tips that I give people when they're trying to land their first clients is instead of going and just directly selling to someone, although that's totally appropriate in many circumstances, is going and asking for advice from somebody that could be a potential client. Be like, hey, I'm starting this business. You'd be my dream client and I just want to learn from you what types of things you're looking for and kind of really set my stage appropriately to

to accommodate people like you. Again, you're asking for their expertise and not their business. But by the end of that conversation, they know you really well, they trust you, they know your intentions, you've built social capital with them. And all of a sudden at the end, you can make that ask of, you know, I'd actually love to help you with exactly what you're talking about. This is why I think I could do it. No pressure, of course, right? That's a much easier sell. Social capital is powerful. It really does unlock so many different things. We are relational people.

And I just want to throw this out there because again, you and I are very different personality wise and socially we operate in the world very differently. What did networking feel like to you in the early days? Like what was your association with networking in general?

Charles (: 13:41

Yeah, I mean, first it started off just saying who I was, what I was doing. And honestly, that got me my first client and several referrals. Like that was really, really powerful. I'm good at talking about myself. can talk, I think most people can talk about themselves if they're willing to.

⁓ and so just putting myself in the situation where people said, how's work going? And I would say, well, I'm starting this CPA firm. And then they'd say, cool. Well, know someone. that was the first, first big step. and then.

Seth Jenson (: 14:09

Before you even

took that step, if I had said networking, what would like connotatively you experience? Cause now I know you're a big fan, now that you've actually experienced it or whatever, but before you took the plunge and I was like, you should network. What was like your association?

Charles (: 14:14

yeah, so.

Yeah.

My association would be going to a bar from like five to seven and talking with a bunch of different people and schmoozing. That would have been my definition of networking. 100%. Yep. Yep. And I do that. I'm not going to say that I don't, but, um, yeah, that would have been my initial thought. And I would have told you, heck no. I hate that. I don't want to do it. I still don't like it.

Seth Jenson (: 14:35

Business card in hand, firm handshake, yeah.

Yeah.

Charles (: 14:52

That's my least favorite way of doing it.

Seth Jenson (: 14:54

I definitely think networking has an ick factor unlike most aspects of business, but it really doesn't have to be that way, right? Like again, you and I have very different personalities. You're much more introverted than I am, but both of us have been very successful networking in our careers, right? And for me, the way to get over that ick factor.

for anybody is just remember that networking is sharing passions with people, like connecting on shared passions. So, and again, in your case, the business owners you're talking to, they're very passionate about their business and the success of their business. And you as providing accounting services, that's what you're passionate about too, right? So it doesn't have to feel gross. It's just you being like, tell me about your business and sharing about what you do for businesses, right?

Again, when I think about if you're looking for expertise that you don't have, and again, there's going to be so many things you don't know how to do at the beginning of starting a business. The people that have those answers are proud of having those answers, right? Like, so don't, don't feel like you're, you know, wasting their time. You're giving them an opportunity to be an expert in something and they're going to be excited to be that, right? So just, it doesn't have to be artificial.

Charles (: 15:50

Yes.

Seth Jenson (: 16:02

It doesn't, you don't have to practice schmoozing strategies or salesmanship. You can literally just be genuine and honest. And it's really just letting people know what, what you're about and letting them share what they're really good at and excited about. So the most introverted people I've ever met have, are also can be incredible entrepreneurs and have been incredible entrepreneurs. You just have to be willing to, to have those conversations and, and.

access your social capital.

Charles (: 16:28

Yeah. Something I would personally, I could never do. but Alex Hermosy who I'm sure you've heard of before, he's the author of a hundred million dollar leads. he always recommends just pulling out every contact in your phone and calling them and telling them what you're doing. You don't have to sell them, which I appreciate. and I think he's right in that fact, but he's like, just calm up and be like, Hey, I'm starting a CPA firm. How are you guys doing? Or

You could switch that, right? How are you doing? I'm starting a CPA firm. That's probably the better way of doing it. and personally, I could never do that. That, that would freak me out a little bit, but I think he is right. If you had to find. Clients or customers or sell a product now within the next 24 hours, I think that would work. and that I think is a perfect example of networking, and a way that you can start a business.

Seth Jenson (: 17:12

Yeah, absolutely. Make yourself lucky. Get it out in the universe. Let your inner and your outer network do work for you. I want to make this even more concrete for us. Like, let me give you an example of yet another way social capital can make magic happen, right? So let's say I'm starting an e-commerce company.

and I realize I'm gonna need warehousing and delivery services, there's a lot of different options in my community, right? There's a lot of businesses that would love to offer that. And it would take a lot of time for me to vet every single one of those and decide, okay, I now had 50 conversations with 50 different companies and I've looked at all their different pricing. Instead, I should think about my network and be like, okay, who owns an e-commerce brand?

Maybe I don't know anybody personally, doesn't my aunt, didn't she do some work for someone that, you know, owns a shoe company or whatever? I happen to know like a million e-commerce ⁓ owners, but that's kind of my line of work. So it's not surprising, but even if I didn't, I guarantee.

Someone in my inner or outer network would know somebody who's built a successful e-commerce company. So I find that person in my network. take them to lunch. say, Hey, I'm trying to find a great warehousing and delivery kind of 3PL service. Who do you use? And do you like them? And have you used other people to pass? Right? All of a sudden, instead of spending 50 hours vetting different companies, I spend literally one hour at lunch with somebody.

and I learned what I don't know about it, right? All the pitfalls they've fallen into that now I'm going to avoid, who they've worked with, why they like them, why they don't. I've got a warm contact that maybe I'm able to get a discount with that company because it's coming from someone they trust. There's so many things that that one hour unlocks for me because I was willing to first think about my social capital and put it to work for my business.

Charles (: 18:58

No, it's really good. think of a charity that I work with as more of an advisory role called Book Drive for Kids. You're welcome to look it up and donate. They're awesome. I love them to death. They do such a great job. But when they started, they didn't have any capital, any of that financial stuff. They started networking, let people know what they were doing, how they were trying to do it. And if you don't know, books have a lot of physical...

They take up a lot of physical room and so they needed a warehouse to store these books that get donated before they can then do book fairs or

selling books, they don't sell the books, but to the kids, right? And they ran into another nonprofit, who they got connected with. They chatted lo and behold, they had some warehouse space they weren't using and they just said, yeah, just go ahead and put your books there for now. And, you know, as you grow, we can talk about, know, if it, if it's needed to change locations, ⁓ but that helped them get started. ⁓ they S I think they still store books there today. that's just such a

Seth Jenson (: 19:41

Yeah.

Charles (: 19:53

big unlock that they wouldn't have had if they didn't just network, talk to people, explain what they were doing, right?

Seth Jenson (: 19:56

for sure.

I mean, just think about how powerful that concept is in so many ways, right? Like in this case, saved them so much money. And it was, and it was specifically what they needed, right? Like it was, it might just be a stop gap before they get their own services, but like now they have specifically what they need for their size and, and stage of growth for what they're trying to accomplish. And what it comes down to is do you trust just the things you know, or do you trust

Charles (: 20:10

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 20:25

the whole community's worth of knowledge and opportunities, right? Like you might be aware of 10 opportunities or 10 strategies to solve a problem or 10 people you could hire, but the community knows thousands of opportunities, has thousands of answers, has thousands of potential people you could hire, right? Put that thousands factor, even tens of thousands factor to power in your business, not just limit yourself with what's right at hand for you, right?

the magic pixie dust, I'm not lying, it will completely change everything. And it's, it is baked into the story of every single successful business. Like it's kind of the unsung hero of the startup stage in every way.

Charles (: 21:02

Yeah.

Well, people always call it luck or serendipity or something, right? They'll have some term. Every business owner I've talked to has some story of this randomly happening. It really, really does happen because of your networks and your social capital that you gain. So we talked a little bit about Alex Hormozzi's way of going through your phone contacts. And that is one way of doing it for sure.

Seth Jenson (: 21:11

Mm-hmm.

Charles (: 21:27

Like I said that would terrify me, but I do think it would work

Seth Jenson (: 21:29

Yeah, me too, honestly. I'm extroverted, but cold calling

high school friends would not be my first move.

Charles (: 21:36

Not my first movie there. Not saying it wouldn't work. I think it really would. Are there other like concrete strategies you recommend people to do to really grow that capital?

Seth Jenson (: 21:47

So you mentioned this at beginning, but I do think it's important. Just being open with what you're doing is huge. Get over that, that...

I guess it's fear, right? At the end of the day, we're afraid to tell people that we're trying to do a big thing, right? ⁓ And so step one.

Charles (: 22:01

Yeah. It's ego, right? Like

I'm scared that I'm going to tell people I'm doing this and then fail miserably and get another job in six months. That's totally what it is.

Seth Jenson (: 22:10

Yep. Right, right.

It's scary to call yourself. In my case, it took me a long time to be like, yes, I am a consultant. Like I had made tens of thousands of dollars in consulting before I was willing to tell people I'm a consultant because it feels that right. It doesn't, especially in those early stages, it might even feel like there's some imposter syndrome going on. Right. Um, but at the reality is

Charles (: 22:32

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 22:35

You know, they always say fake it till you make it. It's not even faking it. It's just owning it. Own it. And by owning it and by being honest with what you're doing and genuine and excited, that's going to spread the word out and unlock social capital in your business. So step one, really, overcome that fear of being honest with people and being bold, right? Objection is not going to hurt as bad as you think it's going to. People respect.

people that are trying and doing things. just like, except there's gonna be some nos or some not interested, that's totally fine. If you're being genuine, they're not gonna like hate you for it. The other thing is as you approach these interactions, always be trying to add value for them, right? And again, sometimes adding value is letting them add value for you, right? Again, I use that example of tapping into people's expertise. I help people with their businesses for free all the time.

limited, you know, like I'm not going to do their whole business or consulting suite, but people are like, Hey, could I, could I have a conversation? Can I take you to lunch and just kind of brainstorm with you this direction I'm taking? And of course I'm going to help them out. Right. ⁓

Charles (: 23:26

You

Yeah.

Yeah. If you approach it the right way, for sure. I'll even tell you what website to go to to register your LLC, things like that. Right. 100%.

Seth Jenson (: 23:44

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. ⁓

And again, they're respectful with my time. They realize this is my profession and, and, you know, they're not demanding things of me, but they're giving me an opportunity to talk about what I love to talk about and what I'm an expert in. I spent so much of my life thinking about, right? So they are adding value to me by providing me that opportunity. So adding value can mean lots of things. can mean literally doing stuff for them and trying to be useful in their business and generous with your time and your resources. It can be allowing them to be generous towards you.

But whatever it is, always add value in every interaction you have. Don't have a take mindset or what's in it for me mindset. And I hope that doesn't feel like a paradox because it really isn't. Like that's how social exchanges happen. It's always a give and take. It's always a shared excitement. And so, lean into that.

The other thing I would say is identify where your people are and put yourself in that situation, right? So in your case, Chamber of Commerce, again, they have kind of a stereotype in the business community of everyone's just trying to get business from everybody, but you've been incredibly successful in ⁓ participating in Chamber of Commerce.

Charles (: 24:44

For sure For sure Well and and we

can make fun of chambers of commerce I'm totally okay with that there are some really odd people that go there every week and there's some really great people and There are definitely some salesmen and they're definitely People that are just There because they don't know what to do or they don't have anything else to do in their life

Seth Jenson (: 24:56

haha

Mm-hmm.

Charles (: 25:06

But it is so effective. And I think mainly because it's a government thing, so it's very low cost, it's very low risk. And I think for me personally, it was great practice. Because I showed up week after week for months and...

Seth Jenson (: 25:19

Yeah.

Charles (: 25:24

Every time I would have to network, I would have to explain what I was doing. I'd have to give my 32nd pitch, right? I've got that thing nailed down now. And so now when I approach someone, I'm so much more confident than I was before. So we, so we can rag on chamber of commerce all we want, but I'd, I strongly recommend it. I think it's some of the best, think mine locally was 400 bucks. then. Boy, I've gotten.

Seth Jenson (: 25:42

Yeah!

Charles (: 25:49

quite a few clients from it. And that's not always gonna be the case, but yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 25:51

And the key

there is that's where your straight-up business were, right? You were looking for business owners with a size business, that's where they would be, right? The Chamber of Commerce was the perfect kind of opportunity for that. If you'd been doing a tech startup, you would not go to the Chamber of Commerce, right? You would be going and finding where the venture capitalists and the founders are. So thinking through, who are my people, whether that's the people I wanna have as clients or partners or investors.

Charles (: 25:57

true.

Yeah.

True, true, that is a good point.

Seth Jenson (: 26:18

or co-founders, whatever it is you're trying to network into, think really strategically about where are they? Where are they hanging out? And it's gonna be different in each community, but a little bit of brainstorming and a little bit of networking to find out, you'll figure it out very quickly. And then put yourself there. Be bold and figure out a way to participate. Whether that's, you know, there's these incredible stories and I encourage my students to do this, know, college-age students do this all the time where their time is cheap, to be honest, where I'm like,

Charles (: 26:36

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 26:46

Go find someone you respect in an industry you wanna be a part of, and then just go ask and be like, what would it take for me to shadow or intern for you or provide value? I just wanna be where you are, you know, and learn from the circumstances you're always in. That's a, I mean, the students that take that advice have done incredible things, right? So I think of a good friend and someone that I've been mentoring, they just had an

Incredible successful raise in their business for an awesome startup it all started because they went and worked for dirt cheap as an intern in a venture capital firm Made all these amazing contexts saw these different successful firms and then went and built their own and then lo and behold They already know the people they they need to know that are going to invest in their company and connect them with their first clients, right? So go put yourself in the places where the people that are going to unlock value for your business are and then

add value as you're there. You know, be a team player, contribute to the community. Honestly, it's simple, but that's really the formula.

Charles (: 27:49

Yeah. So I'm curious because right. I'm very service-based business. A lot of my clients are service-based businesses. So I understand like the physical networking very, very well. and I, I understand too, like networking with consultants or other people that are semi in your space. What about boy, cause I think of what if you were manufacturing pencils?

Seth Jenson (: 28:09

Mm-hmm.

Charles (: 28:10

Like where on earth would you even network for that? Cause I'm going to sell these pencils online on Amazon. They're really pretty. They're well done. But where on earth would you even go? I'm just curious.

Seth Jenson (: 28:20

So there is a whole world of networking opportunities that the laymen like us don't run into. I think of an amazing entrepreneur I've worked with the last few months. She does a specialty spice business. So these are infused salts and spices, very niche. And her successes come from these very specific specialty trade shows that I wasn't aware existed, but there's actually, they're all over the nation. There's international versions of this.

where people are selling to major corporations or to each other, but they're getting their kind of food and beverage products out there, right? And so every time she's gone to one of these trade shows, she's left with 10 to 12 referrals for companies that want to source their spices from her, right? ⁓ So no matter how niche it is, there's a lot of people doing similar things to you. And in some cases, you can be the community builder.

Charles (: 29:03

Wow.

Seth Jenson (: 29:11

and initiate that and that can provide tons of value, right? So if you really do find a niche where you're like, okay, truly I can't find anything that would really benefit then build it, right? One of my heroes ⁓ is a venture capitalist here locally and he built Utah Tech Week from the ground up. this London has a Tech Week. There's cities all over the world that have Tech Weeks where kind of investors and founders come together. He's like,

Charles (: 29:14

Yeah.

yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 29:34

I wish we had one of those. Utah could really benefit from one. So he built it and it's become this huge grassroots thing where the scale of it is mind blowing and the impact is huge. But he saw an opportunity to actually initiate the community. And because there was so much value to be had, people just rushed to support him and bring it to and it's put him in a really cool position where now he's connected to all the major investors nationwide and now growing internationally.

Charles (: 29:54

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 30:03

He's got first dibs at all of the amazing startups, right, that are coming to be part of the Tech Week that he built. So if, and you'll be surprised what is out there if you do some digging, but if at the end of the day you don't see the opportunity you wish was there, then make it.

Charles (: 30:18

No, that's really cool. Advice I got when I was starting my firm is to find a niche and ingratiate yourself inside that niche. And the joke from the influencer, the accounting influencer, yes, they exist. Speaking to your point of communities that you wouldn't think exist, but he always joked like, go be the APRE specialist. ⁓ Things that are so small that you wouldn't think about.

Seth Jenson (: 30:30

Hahaha

Hmm.

Charles (: 30:42

There really are huge communities built around these, these things. And as you kind of understand and weasel your way into the. The industry, right? As you become an expert in that industry, you'll be shocked at the opportunities that, that show up.

Seth Jenson (: 30:47

Yeah.

So yeah, I again, I love that advice and from that accounting ⁓ influencer, which I will now, you know, I'm go follow all the accounting influencer podcasts I can find now. That's a good time. I'm sure our wives would love to spend some time with us listening to those. But the...

Charles (: 31:03

Yeah.

yeah, he's awesome. Jason Stats, you should definitely go check out. He's great business advice.

Seth Jenson (: 31:17

If I were to talk about what he talked about in network terms, it means there's some network cluster out there. There's some group of people that all know each other and all passionate in solving problems. And if you can insert yourself into that, that cluster, ⁓ there's so much value to be had, right? Especially because other people aren't, aren't participating there. So, ⁓ man, I could talk about networks all day, but the key takeaway here is put your networks to work for your business.

use social capital. Don't rush to financial capital to solve all your problems. There's even specific things that financial capital can't do as well as social capital, right? There's people that'll take your money and provide things that aren't gonna solve your problems. That where if you applied social capital to that same issue, you'd get much better results. That's a whole nother conversation you could have, but my point is don't rush to financial capital. Use your social capital first.

And that can even put your financial capital to more efficient work when you've paired it with social capital, right? So use your social capital, use your relationships, use your network, use your community. There's so many different ways we could talk about it, but go there first and let the magic pixie dust work.

Charles (: 32:21

So.

Magic pixie dust. I will ask one kind of question on this because I'm always curious what people's opinions are. So we talked about a Chamber of Commerce and that does cost money. It's pretty minimal though. But do you have strong opinions on like BNI or master networks, these paid for networking groups?

Seth Jenson (: 32:42

In general, my suggestion is always to start free because until you've tapped, there's just so much to be had in everyone's network that they're under it's underutilized, I guarantee. So there's nothing wrong with these paid networks and people have a lot of value. They exist for a reason. But start with what you have at hand. Really come to know the extent of your social capital and get good at navigating that because there is no substitute for that.

Now, that being said, there are specific paid opportunities that might be right for your business, but my suggestion is know what you're looking for, know what it offers, don't lock yourself into something that's like gonna be a long-term thing. But yeah, there's definitely, they can be really, really valuable ⁓ in so many ways, but my biggest fear with them is that you're gonna under-utilize that network you already have built in.

and you're just going to rely on that paid service. And that would be my main fear.

Charles (: 33:35

Yeah. And that that's always kind of been my opinion of it. like for my own personal business, I just don't see a point because my social capital is just growing monthly anyway. And so why pay for a service when I don't have to, I still have untapped social capital out there and pretty significant, think. having said that I, I have seen BNI catapult businesses as well. So it's not saying that it doesn't work.

Seth Jenson (: 33:45

Yeah.

And there's

Totally.

And explain BNI for those that are uninitiated.

Charles (: 33:58

Just my own personal.

Yeah. So BNI and I don't know the exact cost. I know it's, I think it's in the thousands, but basically you just, it's a paid networking group where they match you with other business owners specifically. Not in your field. so if there was a marketing person and another marketing person, they're not going to be in the same BNI group, which just allows it so that there's not really competition. and then in that group, you really.

⁓ gain a lot of social capital that you meet together often. And then the idea is then that you network and use each other's social capital to grow your business.

Seth Jenson (: 34:35

Yeah. And there's different flavors, you say, masterminds, there's a lot of these different kinds of international or national brands. The one little tidbit I'll put out there to, again, these tend to be exclusive, right? They limit the group sizes and things like that. tend to be expensive. A lot of the times, the very most valuable, most elite groups are not paid, right? Like there's, you know, they'll...

These groups will sometimes sell you and like, you're gonna be with the best of the best and whatever, but truly the best of the best don't have to pay to have these things happen. A lot of the times there's gonna be natural groups. I know in my context, the very, very six, the most successful business owners in the community, they already know each other. They already do deals. They're not paying to participate in these things. So.

Charles (: 35:17

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 35:20

Also, there's a little bit of skepticism that I would suggest bringing to the idea that you need to pay to access the best because in some cases, you know, I think of like the owner of the jazz, the owner of Qualtrics. I'm not going to find a group I can pay in to talk to him, but I have mutual contacts that could connect me with him, right? And he's really one of the huge success stories the Midwest has had for a while. you know.

They definitely have a place. There's nothing wrong with them. If they fit your business, awesome. But just know that the unpaid opportunities are vast and almost without limits. So go there first.

Charles (: 35:57

Yeah. And on personal side, I have a fantastic networking group that I go to once a week that isn't related to anything, no chamber of commerce or anything like that, or BNI it's, totally free. It's just a bunch of us that we get together. We're in the area. that has been one of the most. Lucrative and beneficial networking groups. And that just was again, pixie dust, the reason I'm in there. Right. And so.

Seth Jenson (: 36:16

Mm-hmm.

Charles (: 36:22

I think a lot of it just comes as you network, as you kind of grow, you'll gain these connections and you shouldn't have to pay for some of these. ⁓ but again, I'm an accountant, so I'm cheap. So there's some pros and cons to everything.

Seth Jenson (: 36:32

Yeah.

Yeah,

well again, everyone has to be cheap in those and lean in those early stages, right? And so, and that's the other thing is when you hit a level of success in your business, go for it, right? It could be a luxury good at that point, you know, and ⁓ a lot of people do that, right? Sometimes the paid aspect means that they're working with other businesses that have the means to pay for it, right? And so again, there's nothing wrong with it, but...

Charles (: 36:47

Yeah.

Seth Jenson (: 36:59

you know, find what fits you and your business best. Yeah.

Charles (: 37:03

Well, let's wish everyone some magic pixie dust that's listening to this and we'll talk to you guys next week